[Grem] Ferenc pápával készült interjú összefoglalása / Szilvay G.

2023. Feb. 12., V, 12:20:30 CET

 Article on how Pope Francis's comments in both the above mentioned (AP)
interview as well as in his latest air-borne interview on his way back to
Rome from Africa might confuse people

by Luiz Sérgio Solimeo
<https://www.returntoorder.org/author/luizsergiosolimeo/> February 8, 2023
https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764

Pope Francis has inaugurated a new kind of magisterium—media interviews.
Amid relaxed conversations with journalists, he addresses complex doctrinal
topics that require precision and clarity.

*“Talismanic Words”*

Journalists pick through his confusing expressions looking for soundbites
to turn into headlines for their media outlets and then spread them
worldwide. One could call these slogans “talismanic words,” in the sense
explained by Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira in his famous work, *Unperceived
Ideological Transshipment and Dialogue
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2021/12/in-the-war-of-the-words-woke-goes-rogue/>*:
“[A talismanic word] is a word whose legitimate meaning is friendly and, at
times, even noble, but it is also a word with some elasticity. When used
tendentiously, it shines with a new radiance, fascinating the patient and
taking him much farther than he could have imagined.”1
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftn1>

*“Who Am I to Judge?”*

In 2013, the first year of his pontificate, during an interview with
journalists on the plane back to Rome from his visit to Brazil, Pope
Francis uttered the famous phrase, “Who am I to judge?”2
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftn2>
It was immediately turned into thunderous headlines.

This talismanic expression became famous. It characterizes the pope’s
teaching concerning sins against nature. Fr. James Martin, the homosexual
movement’s leading Jesuit promoter, says that Pope Francis’s expression
signaled “a dramatic shift in tone from previous popes” since they usually
employed a “condemnatory and accusatory language.” “I think that was the
beginning of the opening of the door in his pontificate” to “LGBT people.”3
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftn3>

*“Being Homosexual Is Not a Crime”*

Almost ten years later, Pope Francis’s latest phrase on homosexuality
aroused the same excitement in the media and the homosexual movement.

In a lengthy January 24, 2023 interview with the Associated Press’s Nicole
Winfield, he declared that being homosexual is not a crime but a sin.
However, much of the media highlighted only the first part of the
statement—that homosexuality is not a crime.4
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftn4>

The statement is made in a confusing context in which the homosexual act’s
sinful aspect seems to lack real importance. Let us look at the transcript
in Spanish, the language in which Pope Francis
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2021/02/let-pope-francis-speak-out/> gave
the interview. He states, “[W]e are all children of God, and God wants us
as we are and with the strength that each of us fights for our dignity.”
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftn5>

The statement that we are all God’s children and, therefore, “God wants us
as we are” is highly ambiguous. It seems to imply that a person’s moral
state and the severely sinful state of those who engage in homosexual acts
do not matter to the Creator.

Now, as the *Catechism of the Council of Trent* explains, by analogy, as
Creator, God can be called the Father of every human being. Nevertheless,
only a person in the state of grace is truly an “adopted son” of God.6
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftn6>
And Saint John is adamant: “In this, the children of God are manifest, and
the children of the devil. Whosoever is not just, is not of God” (1 John
3:10).

On the other hand, authentic human dignity comes from the practice of
virtue, not vice. Sin, which is an offense against God, does not dignify
man.

Then comes the statement that has been spread: “Being homosexual is not a
crime. It is not a crime. Yes, but it is a sin. Well, first, let us
distinguish sin from crime.” He added, “But the lack of charity with one’s
neighbor is also a sin. How are you doing in this regard?”7
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftn7>

Although Pope Francis says that homosexuality is a sin, he implies it is a
sin like any other, for example, “the lack of charity toward one’s
neighbor.” Moreover, in asking, “How are you doing in this regard?” he
implies that everyone sins in some way or another, so it is wrong to single
out homosexual acts. But since the practice of sodomy seriously undermines
the moral order, it was included among those “sins that cry out to heaven
for vengeance.” According to Scripture, these sins are voluntary homicide
(Gen. 4:10); sodomy (Gen. 19:13); oppression of widows and orphans (Exod.
22:22ff.); and depriving workers of their just wage (Deut. 24:17ff.; James
5:4).”8
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftn8>

*Does Homosexuality Stem From the Human Condition?*

A little later, he repeats: “And being homosexual is not a crime. It is a
human condition.”9
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftn9>

While this phrase is unclear, Pope Francis seems to be saying that being
homosexual is part of the human condition and, therefore, cannot be
criminally or morally censurable.

*Letter to Fr. James Martin*

Among the pro-homosexuality media that celebrated the AP interview is
*Outreach.Faith—a
Catholic LGBTQ
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2022/06/state-farms-program-to-distribute-lgbt-books-draws-fire-and-defeat/>*
website founded and directed by Father Martin.10
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftn10>

The notorious Jesuit was not satisfied with Pope Francis’s statement that
homosexuality “is not a crime” because it was followed by the observation
that it is “a sin.” He hastened to write the pope, asking for clarification.

*“Do You Think That Simply Being Gay Is a Sin?”*

Father Martin asked the pope, “Do you think that simply being gay is a
sin?” In his handwritten reply, Pope Francis tries to justify himself for
not having been clear and precise: “In a televised interview, where we
spoke with natural and conversational language, it is understandable that
there would not be such precise.definitions.” In stating that homosexuality
is a sin, says Pope Francis, “I was simply referring to Catholic moral
teaching, which states that *every sexual act outside of marriage *is a
sin. Obviously, *one must keep the circumstances in mind, which diminish or
annul guilt.*”11
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftn11>

*What Is Intrinsically Evil Will Always Be Sinful*

Traditional Catholic morals have always sustained that an intrinsically
evil act never ceases to be sinful because of circumstances. John Paul II
affirms this in his encyclical *Veritatis splendor*: “In teaching the
existence of intrinsically evil acts, the Church accepts the teaching of
Sacred Scripture. The Apostle Paul emphatically states: ‘Do not be
deceived: neither the immoral
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2018/05/with-cardinal-dolans-approval-sacrileges-immorality-and-madness/>,
nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the
greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the Kingdom
of God’ (1 Cor. 6:9—10).”

The Polish pope continues: “If acts are intrinsically evil, a good
intention or particular circumstances can diminish their evil, but they
cannot remove it. *They remain ‘irremediably’ evil acts; *per se* and in
themselves, they are not capable of being ordered to God and to the good of
the person*. ‘As for acts which are themselves sins (*cum iam opera ipsa
peccata sunt*), Saint Augustine writes, like theft, fornication, blasphemy,
who would dare affirm that, by doing them for good motives (*causis bonis*),
they would no longer be sins, or, what is even more absurd, that they would
be sins that are justified?’”12
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftn12>

*What About the Salvation of Souls?*

Let us note that, in this and other interviews, Pope Francis does not seem
concerned with the Church’s goal proper—the salvation of souls. He deals
with everything—politics, economics, ecology—but does not mention, when
dealing with morals, the need for conversion and the practice of virtue.

In this interview, he uses the word conversion only to refer to African
bishops who are supportive of laws criminalizing homosexual practice; and
his own conversion in the fight against sexual abuse inside the Church.
However, he does not say that people who engage in homosexual acts should
convert.

*A Double Standard*

In September 2016, four cardinals, Raymond Leo Cardinal Burke, Patron of
the Sovereign Order of Malta, Walter Cardinal Brandmüller, former president
of the Pontifical Committee for Historical Sciences, Joachim Cardinal
Meisner, former archbishop of Cologne, and Carlo Cardinal Caffarra, former
archbishop of Bologna, submitted a series of *Dubia* to Pope Francis on
doctrinal points that are handled ambiguously in the apostolic
exhortation *Amoris
Laetitia.*13
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftn13>

Today, six years later, Pope Francis
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2021/02/let-pope-francis-speak-out/> has
still not publicly answered these *Dubia *[*Doubts*] of the cardinals, two
of whom, Meisner and Caffarra, have already died.

Nevertheless, Pope Francis immediately answered Fr. J. Martin’s *dubia* on
whether homosexuality is a sin. The interview to the Associated Press was
on January 24, and Fr. Martin received the above-mentioned handwritten,
affectionate, and confusing answer to his *dubia* on the 27th.

*The Law of God Is Immutable*

Ambiguity and doctrinal confusion are not part of the Church’s perennial
magisterium. Her guide, the Holy Spirit, is a “Spirit of truth” (John
16:13). Furthermore, as the First Vatican Council taught when defining
papal infallibility, “For, the Holy Spirit was not promised to the
successors of Peter that by His revelation they might disclose new
doctrine, but that by His help they might guard sacredly the revelation
transmitted through the apostles and the deposit of faith, and might
faithfully set it forth.”14
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftn14>

*In Thick Doctrinal Fog, Let Us Invoke Mary*

However thick the mists Divine Providence mysteriously allowed to envelop
Holy Mother Church, testing our faith in this terrible crisis, let us not
forget Our Lord’s words: “I am with you all days, even to the consummation
of the world” (Matt. 28:20).

In Fatima, Mary Most Holy promised, “Finally, my Immaculate Heart will
triumph.” May she grant us courage and fidelity to hold fast to the
Church’s perennial magisterium and not be led astray by Pope Francis’s
confusing statements.
------------------------------
Footnotes:

1.
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftnref1>
Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, Unperceived Ideological Transshipment and
Dialogue,
https://www.tfp.org/unperceived-ideological-transshipment-and-dialogue/#chp2.

2.
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftnref2>
Tracy Connor, “‘Who Am I to Judge?’: The Pope’s Most Powerful Phrase in
2013,” NBC News, Dec. 22, 2013,
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/who-am-i-judge-popes-most-powerful-phrase-2013-flna2D11791260.

3.
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftnref3>
“How Pope Francis Is Changing the Vatican’s Tone on LGBT people,” YouTube.
com, America–The Jesuit Review, accessed Feb. 3, 2023, //
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrslGK0kls4. (4:36–38’)
4.
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftnref4>
“Transcripción de la entrevista de AP con el papa Francisco,” Associated
Press, Jan. 25, 2023,
https://apnews.com/article/noticias-a5cf2c1d450064b588ab3f41d3bf6994. (Our
translation.)
5.
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftnref5>
“Transcripción,” Associated Press, Jan. 25, 2023.
6.
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftnref6>
See The Catechism of The Council of Trent (Rockford, Ill.: Tan Books and
Publishers, Inc., 1982), 20–21.
7.
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftnref7>
“Transcripción.”
8.
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftnref8>
Dom Gregory Manise, O.S.B., s.v. “Sins That Cry to Heaven for Vengeance,”
in Dictionary of Moral Theology, comp. Francesco Cardinal Roberti, ed.
Pietro Palazzini, trans. Henry J. Yannone (Westminster, Md.: Newman Press,
1962).
9.
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftnref9>
“Transcripción.”
10.
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftnref10>
J.D. Long-García, “‘Outreach’ Website Hopes to Inspire Online L.G.B.T.
Community for Catholics,” America, May 2, 2022,
https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2022/05/02/outreach-catholic-lgbt-242917.

11.
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftnref11>
“Pope Francis Clarifies Comments on Homosexuality: ‘One must consider the
circumstances,’” Outreach.faith, Jan. 27, 2023,
https://outreach.faith/2023/01/pope-francis-clarifies-comments-on-homosexuality-one-must-consider-the-circumstances/?_thumbnail_id=4545.
(Our translation.)
12.
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftnref12>
John Paul II, encyclical Veritatis splendor (Aug. 6, 1993), no. 81,
https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_06081993_veritatis-splendor.html.
(Our emphasis.)
13.
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftnref13>
See Edward Pentin, “Full Text and Explanatory Notes of Cardinals’ Questions
on ‘Amoris Laetitia’: The Full Documentation Relating to the Cardinals’
Initiative, Entitled ‘Seeking Clarity: A Plea to Untie the Knots in Amoris
Laetitia.’” National Catholic Register, Nov. 14, 2016,
https://www.ncregister.com/blog/full-text-and-explanatory-notes-of-cardinals-questions-on-amoris-laetitia.

14.
<https://www.returntoorder.org/2023/02/pope-francis-increases-confusion-on-the-homosexual-sin/?PKG=RTOE1764#_ftnref14>
Denz., no. 1836, http://patristica.net/denzinger/#n1800.
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